Thirty Seconds: Do Magazine’s Still Count?
UK BMX blog Streetphire just put up a post on their site which goes some way to try and explain the process of how magazines and advertising works. You can read the full post written by H-Man here. Basically, what this article aims to do is encourage everyone on the internet to goto Streetphire and vote for which magazine, if any, they purchase. H-Man believes the circulation numbers that publishers tell advertisers isn’t an accurate enough description of how many people actually read the magazine.
Adam from The Come Up posted a link to the article and called it ‘interesting’. He actually points out possibly the only interesting fact about the article, that the voting, regardless of how many people vote, wont say how many kids don’t buy magazines. Which means it doesn’t point out how many times a copy of a magazine is read. [one copy of a mag will be read by multiple people] Basically, H-Man is trying to discover the readership of BMX magazines.
As you would expect, there are several reasons this hasn’t been done before.
Firstly. To have any sort of accurate reading, you would have to ensure that a large enough number of magazine buyers vote. Note that I said buyers, as the questions asked is; ‘Which magazines do you still purchase?’ Straight away you’re excluding every person who picks up a copy of a magazine at their friends house while taking a dump, while having a chinwag at the local bike shop or on a lunch break in WHSmiths. H-Man assumes that 90% of people who buy magazines should vote. Which part of the galaxy is this number plucked from. He also suggests that a number between 25-35% of that 90% will visit the Streetphire website. A North East UK blog on an island in Europe. A pretty unlikely figure… The post on Streetphire is a mis-guided and under-educated attempt at finding out how many people read magazines.
Adam at TCU is a long standing promoter of the internet and is always happy to post articles relating to the demise of the mainstream print industry. [which is very different to niche] But guess what, he runs a website! And it’s a business! Of course he is going to promote online over print! But, as some of you reading this might know, Adam is a regular contributor to Ride UK Magazine. If he didn’t believe in the power of print [even if only a marketing tool for TCU] then why would he do it? The £70 per thousand words could be made much more easily flipping burgers at Burger King than writing for a BMX magazine.
Magazines are hard to make, they have to be high quality in order to sell. They provide an opinion that is written by someone who has been vetted. Competition is fierce to get your content into print which is why it’s so appreciated by photographers and writers. On the internet, any Tom, Dick or Harry can have a voice, as demonstrated by the Streetphire post. You buy a magazine and you’re going to view high quality filtered BMX content. If you don’t fancy paying the price of a single beer for it then you can search though the thousands of crap photos and poorly written blogs online.
I don’t know about most people but I think that the print vs web argument is boring and outdated. Propaganda. Print has stepped up because of the internet, this is true, but that’s a good thing! Magazines and the Internet have been residing together now for many years and there is more than enough room for both to coexist. They will reside together for many years to come.
Why even have the argument? It’s all BMX…
-Robin
What do you think? Should we flush the magazine down the drain?
October 21st, 2009 at 16:07
dont get rid of the magazine. i have a 12 year collection that needs to carry on i have pretty much everyissue since june 1997. apart from about 3 in the whole time. please dont get rid of it.real bmxers care about the magazine.
October 21st, 2009 at 16:34
h man is a fucking silly cunt who cant get a job at the magazine for love nor money! he can eat a massive ginger poo
October 21st, 2009 at 16:43
[...] is to be expected (everyone wants their share of the page views), Robin Fenlon wrote up a piece on Ride UK about the Streetphire poll. He raises some good points about why the results won’t be [...]
October 21st, 2009 at 17:05
[...] – Robin has written a post about this over on Ride UK. Posted By: Nuno | Tags: media, print. bmx, Streetphire Comments [...]
October 21st, 2009 at 17:20
yer get ride! waste of paper!
October 21st, 2009 at 17:57
Well said Robin, thats the best piece of BMX journalism I’ve seen from you since your woodward days!
October 21st, 2009 at 18:04
Nice one Robin – well spoken, straight to the point.
October 21st, 2009 at 18:05
Print IS dead. The internet allows you to be selective about what you read; so I am accustomed to reading about the five or so riders I actually enjoying knowing/viewing things about and the products news of companies I care about. When I pick up Ride UK I get a very small amount of information in relative terms and 90% of it is distant from my interests. I USED to be interested in everything, because it was the only information I got and I wasn’t so picky in my interests. Having been conditioned for five years by the online media and having moulded my interests to the new nature of the industry, I care very little about trails riding, team roadtrips that I’ve already seen the video of and contests sponsered by Red Bull. I may pick up Ride UK if there is a photo/interview with Ian Schwartz, but otherwise I might read it for five minutes max in borders.
October 21st, 2009 at 18:09
Thanks for your opinions. The issue is definitely one that people care about and I can understand all the different views. Henry, you pick up the magazine in borders for five minutes, that means you’re still reading the mag, print aint dead!
October 21st, 2009 at 18:18
Well done robin, you’ve just made yourself look like a bellend. congratulations.
October 21st, 2009 at 18:35
I find it funny that you work for a magazine and a website, and you are comparing the two. Aren’t they two different forms of media? That’s like saying full length videos are better than rpint or the internet. They are just different.
Maybe instead of trying to debate a silly issue you should be focusing on the shitty parts company the douche-up guy is starting- speculate how many more ideas he steals with that, and how he is setting his blog up to be the promo tool for it…
Outageously Stupid Shit.
October 21st, 2009 at 18:40
I’d love to know your reasons for taking this poll (a collective group of individuals opinions) so much to heart and backlashing out to a fellow BMX supporter?
October 21st, 2009 at 18:41
Print aint dead, directon of BMX media is, when everyone gets older and the industry gets bigger it’l all sort itself out. BMX mags will come out less frequent and will be keepers, high quality mags in all area’s. Contributors will be a thing of the past, instead relying solely on staff writers and photographers who get paid well. At the moment the small price we pay for mags is a reflection of their quality, bring them out every 2-3 months packed with real PRO’s in there, incredible photo’s, the best advertisements and proper up and coming kids who are totally making moves within their scene and BMX in general. They’l be more expensive but they won’t be tossed on the toilet floor for people to read, they’l be keept on the coffee tables for best and I can’t wait for it.
October 21st, 2009 at 18:44
Second that, Cleggy’s hit the nail on the heed.
October 21st, 2009 at 18:46
I live in Colombia. You do not know how hard is to get a magazine here. I am online around 13 hours per day, I check a lot of webzines, blogs, twitter, faceb etc. and i am completly sure that is is NOT the same. I whish I could buy printed magazines here in Colombia.
October 21st, 2009 at 18:49
13 hours a day online… 7 hours average sleep, shitting, eating, pissing, wanking.. adds about another hour and a half…
Enlighten us as to what you spend the other 2 and a half hours doing?
October 21st, 2009 at 19:29
Ride has got shit, and people don’t like spending money on things that are shit, simple as.
it may be “hard to make a magazine” but dig seems to come up with the goods consistently; a few well considered articles every couple of months about interesting things, written by people who actualy have an imagination and have traveled further than Bognor Regis make a far longer lasting impression than 30 pages of bike checks. (role models issue) or a whole issue about who’s best on a bike and egging jim C (Ride to glory issue)
Sort it out and make your print worthwhile; ride no longer carries the presence and influence it once enjoyed, and is pretty much universaly loathed by anyone who is not 13 years old and not in your “ride pro riders who are featured every month” clique.
October 21st, 2009 at 19:44
So the next time your bored as fuck in math class your gonna go pull out your laptop,browse through the come up? both print and web have their pro’s and con’s, and both need to stay.
October 21st, 2009 at 19:50
Well you could pull out your blackberry/iphone/any other phone thats came out in the past year
October 21st, 2009 at 20:19
Does it matter go ride and have fun.
October 21st, 2009 at 20:22
I really don’t think H Man was trying to attack ride UK or print BMX media in general, you’ve clearly got the wrong end of the stick. I don’t know how much money you think H Man is making off streetphire but I do know it covers the hosting and not a lot else, so why would he be trying to bring down something that he does make money from? Why not use the highly useful information that will come out of the poll rather than trying to make someone who believes in print media come off as a dick?
October 21st, 2009 at 20:53
I think the lady doth protest too much….
October 21st, 2009 at 20:57
The only ways magazines are going to survive is if they keep on publishing articles that are unique and interesting to read- no one wants to see photos of a contest that they saw on the internet 4 weeks ago. We wanna see interesting interviews with interesting people, not just the latest skatepark kid who can whip to vader whatever. I love magazines and have a shit load of them but the issues I buy nowadays are few and far between unfortunately.
October 21st, 2009 at 21:37
You’re saying that the content comes from someone who is vetted? Vetted by whom? And you go on to admit that Adam22 writes for you from time to time. Proper journalist he is. This is just some butthurt egomaniac lashing out because he knows that the end is nigh. Quit rehashing press releases, putting up bikechecks, and giving overviews of contests. Write quality insightful articles that give people something they cant get on the internet or that is rare on the internet, real journalism.
October 21st, 2009 at 21:41
fuck the internet. without the magazine i would have no inspiration in my life. print forever!
October 21st, 2009 at 23:32
come on magazines, prime reading material on the shitter.
October 21st, 2009 at 23:39
although you have to sift through a whole load of shit online before you get to the good bits, it is free….i’d take that anyday over an issue i may or may not like and an exclusive dvd that will be on the net in a month. just to add, i support my local scene and being a “real” bmxer has nothing to do with buying a mag every month, i’d rather spend it on entry to a park, train fare to the trails, spare innertube and so on.
October 21st, 2009 at 23:40
all about print! the internet is bollocks all it does is stop me from gettin a job because of porn. all i see on here is daft shit about makin stems light. fuck off will ya bring back 97! why dont people want stuff they can keep anymore?
October 22nd, 2009 at 05:38
Print has not improved because of the internet. It has paradoxically become more conservative, and proportionately less interesting. I’m all for quality BMX print media, but it simply isn’t happening. The interviews are stale and dull, the writing insipid. Print is killing itself–no help needed. Where is the BMX version of Big Brother? Oh, that’s right–all BMX magazine writers are uninspired, uninteresting, egotistical little bitches, too scared to form or express any real opinions or convictions in case they upset their industry circle jerk “bros”. Pathetic.
October 22nd, 2009 at 07:15
Ride is Rad! its what i look forward 2 every month! Print aint Dead! second that Cleggy!
October 22nd, 2009 at 07:32
ALL I KNOW IS THAT I LOVE READING RIDEUK!!
KEEP DOING YOUR JOB DUDES AS YOU KNOW DUDES..DONT CARE ABOUT WASTERS!!
October 22nd, 2009 at 08:02
“although you have to sift through a whole load of shit online before you get to the good bits, it is free….i’d take that anyday over an issue i may or may not like and an exclusive dvd that will be on the net in a month” – That’s because you’re a fucking pikey.
October 22nd, 2009 at 09:09
I think Cleggy makes the best point. Make Ride UK bi-monthly again alternating with Dig? Both magazines are owned by the same company. It would give Ride UK a chance to get it’s act together in terms of printing more stuff that is actually enjoyable to read, and less of the meaningless jam accounts, frankly lazy bikechecks and pointless questionnaires. Alot of the time you’ll read something in Ride UK and aftwards you’ll of gained no information or enjoyment from it, it will of just been a rambling account of a jam you’ve already seen an edit/blog of online, a transcription of a idiotic conversation seemingly just to fill the space between the photos, or an ancedote that has no relevance or humour to the reader.
Ride UK should go back to being bi-monthly and concentrate on filling it’s pages with the best quality photos combined best written most creative articles possible. Drop all the news sections, everyone hears anything of any relevance over the internet in different ways, wether it be through the tabloid style of thecomeup, the broadsheet bloggings of Bart De Jong over at fatbmx or via individual companies blogs.
Having a good quality issue of Ride UK one month and a issue of Dig the next would satisfy most peoples appetites.
October 22nd, 2009 at 09:19
I think both can exist together, a magazine feels better to read and photos are nicer to have held in your hands. Its just a nice format. but the internet can display videos and you can easily back track to find old articles e.t.c. I don’t think there is anything wrong with having both.
October 22nd, 2009 at 09:24
OK, for all the people who are saying ride has got shit, you either have stopped reading it. but then how do you know that each issue is shit. Or you are still reading it, then why bother wasting money on a magazine you don’t like.
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:05
corse it does cant get rid
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:33
I knew magazines just wont die.In all honesty, I think it’s because of the ad business which has fallen into a nasty cycle that no one is willing to end, least of all magazine publishers.
October 22nd, 2009 at 11:38
ride is amazing! i look forward to reading it- admittiddly the photgraphy issues are shit. bmx needs magazines!!! stop agueing internet for vids – magazines for interviews and photos end of.
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:04
I think quite a few people commenting here are wrong in the head. Internet and print are great and all, but, whilst print may be faltering, it doesn’t mean it’s any worse of than the web. A copy of Ride is something you can nab and carry anywhere with you. Not everyone has access to fancy as fuck phones that double up as a games console/internet browser/SLR Camera/cutlery set. So the paper and glue of RideUK is all we have when we’re miles from anywhere without the internet at hand.
But to be honest, fuck it all and just go ride.
October 22nd, 2009 at 12:17
Lets run through the latest issue.
- Cover and cover story were great.
- After the cover we have ~25 pages of adverts trying to flog shoes, parts and complete bikes.
- A lazy Editorial Foreword, a Hot or not list. Way less effort than writing and engaging paragraph.
- Next up the UK news, stuff thats been on the web weeks ago or that doesn’t matter to anyone. Next to it an article about some trails, only interesting to a tiny trail building clique, who’ve learnt the secret handshakes and pushed the wheelbarrows in winter to ride the trails.
- USA news, again seen it all on the web weeks ago, wether you were actively looking for it or not.
- Disposable life: A lazy bad concept, get a proper photographer to do it.
- Top 5’s: Again lazy and ultimately pointless, no interesting information whatsoever. Just a way to fill some dead space in a photo. Think up some interesting questions to ask and do a mini-interview in the same space.
- Circle Ones: same point as above.
- Nice plug for Diamonback, really that interesting to your average reader though?
- Video Reviews: Get some Savlon for the sore ass sitting on the fence. Same in every issue.
- Hardware: Pretty pictures of brand new products, you can get them from Alans website.
- Frame Works: Same as above, simply paraphrase the frames specs.
- Spotlight: Tyres, yep interesting.
- Softgoods: Completely pointless, just free advertising for companies just like virtually every other article so far.
- Bike tests: These are great, everyone knows you would never give a bike a negative review for fear of losing advertising revenue.
- Industry: A nice plug for Odessa, they clearly offered you a few shoes to give away in return on the next page.
- Make Article: Good pictures and good text, the reason you actually buy the magazine.
- Nice Custom riders Add, probably cost the poor guys £400 a page.
- Reservoir Dogs article: As I said previously a great article, good layout and good documentation of events.
- Oakley Trails Champs: A good article if your in the trails clique, hard to relate to otherwise.
- Hennon Interview: A massive block of hard to follow text that you gain nothing from reading beside a few chuckles.
- BMX in Iraq: A really interesting idea for an article, it’s a good article but should it be in a UK magazine? Surely it and article about American pros visiting American troops might be better in Ride US?
- Scott Buchanan Interview: Just the sort of article you should print more of, a relative unknown who seems like an interesting guy.
- Kink In Sweden: No complaints, Walter Perringers got it dialled.
- A load more adds, Winstanleys must pay you loads.
- Weekenders: Kind of pointless, there have been multiple blogs with pictures and videos from the Livi Jam, Budget Jam, Dev Games, Interbike Murray Jam online. You probably linked to them from your site.
- A load of pages of terrible looking 1/8th pages adds for the little guys. Do these adds really have any point?
- Bikechecks: The bread and butter of every BMX blog, why waste time putting them in your magazine if you want to elevate yourself above content on the web?
- The prest questions are interesting depending upon the candidate, but sites like Defgrip do the same thing just as well.
- WTF: Cool idea, but for every unknown hero being bigged up in your magazine each month theres probably 100 making and putting out their own video online.
- Catch Up: Again, depends on the candidate and again, loads of websites do the exact same thing just as well.
- Park Checks: Interesting if you like that sort of thing.
- How To: So pointless, probably 2-3 how to videos posted on the web each week.
- Letters: Interesting people and morons give their opinions, someone gives witty replies. Sounds like alot like every other blog on the web.
What are we left with, probably 80 pages of adds, probably 20 pages of indirect adverting through products checks, bike reviews, bikechecks, part rundowns, clothes and shoes pictures and the free 4Down catalogue. Gee, thanks for giving me a free catalogue to sell someone elses bike parts.
The good parts that make the magazine worth buying are the main features, of which you have 6 in the current issue. Do those features justify £3.50 pricetag and make up for the pointless regular features and the heavy direct and in-direct advertising?
If you were bi-monthly you could fill your magazine with more of the interesting features people find engaging to read and look at and get rid of the regular features you use just to fill space. Maybe its time to drop your existing magazine template and do something different.
October 22nd, 2009 at 14:46
james needs a girlfriend
October 22nd, 2009 at 16:05
maybe this doesnt need to be said, but ill say it anyway. ride uk, ride us and dig have pretty decent websites, and they put out pretty decent magazines too. i dont think the come up or defgrip could put out magazines on their own. one, because it’s a lot of work, and two, because magazines create the majority of their own content.
October 22nd, 2009 at 16:13
Ride seems to be 60% adverts 40% articles these days. Yes there are adverts on blogs and sites but you dont have to pay for these.
October 22nd, 2009 at 16:14
a magazine wins over the internet anyday for me! yeah james sounds like you do need a girlfriend, u gotta remember that magazines have to appeal to all different types of bmxers not just the moaning little shits that problby are the people who hardly ride at the skatepark- u know the ones that turn up try a few stiff then sit down and bitch for the rest of the day! knobhead go ride you bike and have fun!!! Robin keep up the good work! shitting wouldnt be the same without ride
October 22nd, 2009 at 18:29
i also gotta say this. when a rider gets their first photo in a magazine, its a pretty big deal, right?
i dont see the same impact on the web. do people get as stoked when their video is embedded on the come up and sparks 30 hate filled comments?
October 22nd, 2009 at 19:37
I much prefer the “poorly written blogs” over thumbing through a 60 glossy page magazine, that costs me £3.50, filled with bollocks adverts for energy drinks and the latest nike gear.
I used to enjoy Ride when I was younger, but that’s how it goes. The net has alot more content. It’s not swayed by advertising campaigns (I’m aware it is in some sectors). It’s not always following the latest trends. It’s not filled out pages full of shite when it’s got nothing to vent. If there is nothing worth being written, it aint written, and if it is, you get the choice to say “fuck this, i’m done” and it didn’t cost me £3.50 doing so.
Times change you salty bastard.
October 23rd, 2009 at 15:58
James = James Cox?????????????????????????
October 24th, 2009 at 00:25
magazines are always going to be better than the internet, anyone can be on the internet if they have a video camera..
to be in a magazine you have to get noticed for being something interesting and special, the adverts are worthwhile because its much better to have a brightly coloured good looking set of pictures to make ur mind up quickly about the new part u want than having to look through the whole of winstanleys, if your a true bmxer, you wont be inside on the internet all day looking for this stuff youll be riding and having a magazine to read while you rest is always kwl, the only reason internet got any recognition as better than magz is because you can watch videos, i hate these internet forums cuz they have turned bmxers to a bunch of pussys who bitch about the most pointless crp rather than riding.
October 24th, 2009 at 12:33
Look guys you should be buying ride mag to see If I am in it! DUH!?
Go get subscribed, Get a good deal on a free tshirt if you ring up then you can read about how I call out me winning a constest and then actually winning it. How cool is that!
I win, BUY RIDE, THEN GO RIDE !
October 24th, 2009 at 18:33
robins always been a bellend, didnt need the above shite to tell us
October 26th, 2009 at 18:46
scott hamlin is a tool. why would i read all that writing when i can watch videos on the internet
October 27th, 2009 at 17:56
Chris Finch… Bloody good rep